Exposing Neil Kiernan Stephenson (VTV), Neo-Marxist Anti-American

Neil Kiernan Stephenson is attempting to use his position as a leader in a Neo-Marxist online community to rig the upcoming election in his favor. This organization is against everything the BTP stands for, including (but not limited to): redistribution of wealth and the destruction of the free market system in favor of a utopian one world totalitarian state .

http://tinyurl.com/236qpzs

Proof can be found on the previous link. Text is as follows:

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IMPORTANT: Time to vote for the RBE! (updated) 2 Days, 22 Hours ago
The election for the remaining seat on the national committee of the Boston Tea Party is coming up on Friday, June 5th, 2010. If you would like to show your support for the RBE model please go to Bostontea.us and join the Boston Tea Party free of charge. I have just been nominated and seconded for the position.

IMPORTANT: You must move on this now, as they will prevent people from joining the party as soon as this poll opens Friday. So PLEASE join now. You do not have to be a United States citizen to join the Boston Tea Party. This is a free, and easy way to spread awareness of the RBE model.

Also, after you have joined be sure to vote on the poll that will open up on the website.
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Neil Kiernan Stephenson is attempting to subvert the BTP in order to further a Marxist agenda. This trojan horse must be stopped before more damage is done! He is furthering a radical, far left socialist ideology in the name of the BTP!

Neil Kiernan Stephenson hates America and has stated such many times. He is using the BTP for his own agenda, one which is an anathema to what the BTP is trying to accomplish.

Stop him now! Do not allow him to steal this election by calling in voters from overseas!

Comments

inDglass:

This thread was immature and pathetic from the very start, but now it has stooped to a new low. The tactics of name-calling and personal attacks hurt your own credibility. And in this case they publicize private matters that really should not be brought up here. I encourage BTP members, if they have not yet, to ignore this thread. I suppose you could say, "It's not worth the web space it is printed on."

VTV:

Nope. Never beat my wife. She did get a restraining order against me though. Ironically while she was living with a guy who actually did beat her. The most I have ever done was restrain her when I called the police to have her committed.

exposingneil:

Liar! You stalked her all the way to West Virginia because you didn't pay your bills! You do nothing but lie!

Since you have no job and have had no job for years you wanted her to pay the bills even though she didn't live there. So you stalked her to WV and that is why you had a restraining order!

Todd Andrew Barnett:

For all we know, Neil probably "Neiled" her.

lol

cider:

With this much bickering and senseless name calling, no wonder so little is ever accomplished. we are too busy calling eachother names and refusing to believe anyone but ourselves is right about everything. suspend your beliefs a bit and learn to investigate, research, and i know its a stretch but maybe even consider the idea you may be wrong about some things.

VTV:

HAHAHAHAH! Seriously, listen to yourself! I already did a show talking about the 2cd amendment. It's not that anyone wants to take your guns. It's about creating a situation where people simply no longer need them. And even then, nobody would show up at your house and take them if you had them because we don't believe in coercion.

exposingneil:

You beat your wife! You unemployed Marxist scum!

That's why she put a restraining order on you!

inDglass:

Anyone can get a restraining order with no evidence of abuse or the breaking of any law. The laws are structured that way to protect women from domestic abuse. But the laws themselves are often abused to separate families with no justification. A restraining order is not necessarily an indication of abuse. People should avoid suggesting such a thing, as it only further motivates people to misuse restraining orders.

exposingneil:

Phase Two:
Spread awareness better, or, in his own words, a more organized awareness campaign. And disarmament and anti-militarism projects.

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DISARMAMENT!

Do not believe Synergy's lies about The Zeitgeist Movement not advocating robbing people of their Second Amendment rights.

Peter Joseph, the main marketing person behind this, has openly advocated disarming the public.

Synergy011235813:

Provide a link where it says people will have their guns taken away.

Rather than grasping at straws, go straight to the source.

Peter's own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n25pYkrNBk

and again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSE1k3fUbUs

He explicitly states there that outlawing guns is pointless. It's like alcohol prohibition or any drug in general. Making things "illegal" doesn't solve the problem. It's about outgrowing the NEED for guns.

Even if Peter did advocate disarmament, it wouldn't matter. Why? Because Peter Joseph isn't the leader. He has no power or authority in terms of enforcement. It's the people within the Movement that have the power. If your only concern is gun control, then you would have the power to voice that opinion within the Movement because there are no elected leaders that make the decisions for you.

TZM does not advocate a static system. It advocates an emergent system. What that means is that it is ALWAYS changing. What works gets implemented, what fails gets thrown out. It is, quite simply, the scientific method in motion.

exposingneil:

Liar! Do you ever get tired of lying?

http://tinyurl.com/2btj3cx

Listen to that and then come back and spread your Marxist lies. "Disarmament Projects" what are those? What will you and your magic robots do once you have disarmed us all? Keep us in line with love and kindness?

Synergy011235813:

Utopian? You won't find any claims of such a possibility within that Movement. As a matter of fact, it has been explicitly stated on multiple occasions by the top figures of "The Movement" that there can be no such thing as a Utopia. That their proposal does NOT solve all the problems, it's just a hell of a lot better. I am inclined to agree. Labeling it utopian, as opposed to objectively refuting the feasibility based on sound science, is a logical fallacy.

Totalitarianism? Another baseless projection as far as I can tell. Fear-mongering. What "The Movement" advocates is the elimination of government. Whether you believe this to be possible or not does not excuse the false claim that "The Movement" advocates totalitarianism.

Calling him a "Neo-marxist" is yet another attempt at fear-mongering. I mean this in the sense that you are using the negative connotation of the world "Marxist" to smear a candidate you don't agree with, despite his never advocating Marxism. It's an emotional appeal. As I am sure you are aware, there is a difference between Marxism in theory and historical Communism in practice. There are further differences between what is advocated by The Venus Project and what Marx advocated, to make no mention of the far superior technological capabilities in automation and cybernation of the modern world as compared to when Marx posited his philosophy. It is dishonest, at best, to associate Neil with Marxism.

The quote offered to claim Neil as "anti-American" is yet another ad hominem attack. First, it is taken out of context. Secondly, it is intended as yet another appeal to emotion, as if to say he hopes for the demise of our country for the good of another, which is quite obviously not the case.

The founding of this country on indian blood and slavery is surely, as I am sure you would agree, an unsavory yet indisputable fact of American history. Patriotism should never get precedence over human rights, and yet it does -- and that is the problem. That is not to say America should be destroyed, but that we as Americans need to take note of the past so as not to be blinded by patriotic ideals at the expense of morality.

The idea that Neil's perspective on American history should be taken as a personal attack directed towards we as American citizens is pretty deceptive.

Pir-EdJesus:

This is as Neo-Marxist nonsense as you can get.

Machines doing all the work for you?

Everything for free and people just work because they like to?

A global collapse (=revolution) of capitalism that is followed by a transition (=socialism) to reach a RBE (=communism)?

Read "Animal Farm", people.

We're here to support the power of the free market over government bureaucracy, not to "vote" for some long-dead ideology.

Synergy011235813:

Clark, machines already ARE doing most of the work.

In 1949, machines did 6% of the cotton picking in the South. By 1972, 100% of the cotton picking was done by machines. When automation hit the US Manufacturing Sector in the 1950s, 1.6 million blue-collar jobs were lost in 9 years. In 1860, 60% of America worked in Agriculture, while today it is less than 3%. In 1950, 33% of US workers worked in Manufacturing, while by 2002 there was only 10%. From 1983-1993, banks cut 37% of their human tellers, and by the year 2000, 90% of all bank customers used teller machines (ATMs).

This is only going to continue. It's a natural trend of technological advancement. Consider the purpose of out-sourcing to industry. The purpose is to cut costs. Machines don't sleep, get sick, require health insurance, etc. Those occupations that have not yet been automated often can be, it just isn't cost effective at the time. The price then drops as newer versions are introduced every year.

So, what happens when the service sector (one of the last remaining sectors not significantly displaced by technological unemployment) begins to succumb to this trend? We're already seeing cooked food vending machines, robot chef's, robotic wait staffs, self check-out, automated warehouses and so on with automated transportation on the horizon. What happens when there aren't enough jobs to go around for half the population, or more? And what happens in a few decades when human level A.I. is introduced? This isn't science fiction, it's called Moore's law. We live in an emergent world, not a static one.

If we have the capability to automate all occupations in production, distribution and transportation, why hold on to money with all the problems it creates? Ever heard of the Merva-Fowles study? Ever read up on the effects of the increasing wealth gap to mental health, general health, homicides, drug use etc.? Ever read the science literature on incentives? Competition?

Philosophy once reasoned that the Earth was flat, and that objects of larger size fell to earth faster than objects of smaller size (Aristotle). Science went about testing these assumptions and found them to be incorrect. It doesn't matter what makes sense, it matters what works. Science is what is needed, not philosophy.

Pir-EdJesus:

Well then, where are the machines to paint my house or fix my plumbing? Haven't seen none of those.

"If we have the capability to automate all occupations in production, distribution and transportation"

Call me when you have that. And I mean, like, in reality. ALL occupations.

" why hold on to money with all the problems it creates?"

You use money to exchange value. If we had enough of everything for everyone, it would be worthless. But we don't. There's not enough Mahogany to make a great guitar for everyone, if you want one, pay for it. If you don't, take a cheaper model. You guys are living in dream land where mr. roboto is doing everything and you relax on your beach house...wait, there isn't enough beach house for everyone! Surprise!

"Ever read up on the effects of the increasing wealth gap to mental health, general health, homicides, drug use etc.? Ever read the science literature on incentives? Competition?"

Let me explain that with a joke: Kids comes home and shows his report, full of Fs. Kid says, so Dad, which is it, genetics or environment?

Competition is the only thing that works in this world! WORK HARD and SUCCEED or go to Dr. Phil and cry or watch some damn soap opera everyday. Everything you enjoy each day was built by people WORKING HARD not some schmucks sitting at home whining about competition. Do you even have a JOB?

"Science is what is needed, not philosophy."

People who WORK are needed! People who contribute! People who are putting in the work and don't want government or communists to take their hard earned money away! Try your bad science in Korea!

m3talsmith:

Once capital is no longer needed to fight capital, we can do away with it entirely. Simple.

In fact this is a capitalistic reality. If given the choice between working, or having someone else do work, I would have someone else do the work. Owners do this all the time: because they have the workforce, and a tight enough friends network, to force everyone else to bend to their desires. That's capitalism in action. Those who do not will be killed through force of a gun, starvation, or, as we see now, pure lack of jobs to even work at.

exposingneil:

Do you deny that The Venus Project and The Zeitgeist Movement are trying to abolish the free market and the monetary system in favor of a collectivist distribution of resources?

Do you deny that Neil's candidacy is really just a way to further this agenda at the expense of the BTP?

Do you deny that Neil has enlisted the help of outside entities to inflate his votes?

Marxist lies!

VTV:

Dude, even some of the Free Market Capitalists here think your being a tool. I would say you have just epically failed.

Synergy011235813:

Is Neil's candidacy a way to further this agenda at the EXPENSE of BTP? No. As far as I can tell, the proposal advocated by Neil is within the written Bylaws of BTP.

Article 3 begins with:

"The purposes of the Boston Tea Party are: To empower lovers of freedom to reduce the size, scope and power of government."

This I take to be the basis of the BTP platform. Am I wrong in this observation?

Those within The Movement Neil advocates would maintain that their proposal allows for greater freedom and smaller government than would ever be possible within any variation of free market system.

Has Neil enlisted the help of outside entities? Sure. As I am sure many other candidates have done. Is it reasonable to assume that most, if not all, BTP members and candidates have pointed friends, family and fellow activists to this site to further the cause?

Synergy011235813:

Abolish isn't the word I would use. The free market and monetary systems have merely grown obsolete. The idea that the alternative presented is "collectivist" depends on your personal interpretation of the term.

What the Movement advocates is the automation of monotonous labor. We are going to have to contend with technological unemployment one way or another, as we are running out of alternative sectors.

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Three basic examples for the contention of technological unemployment:

--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ST1TO6fQv8 (very large video compilation of automation prospects)

--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs (brief clip from Marshall Brain lecture)

--http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm (supporting background information for Brain's thesis in three parts)

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With the unskilled labor eliminated, only skilled labor would be left over, for a time. As you may be aware, the skilled labor that requires critical thinking or creativity (think in terms of scientific innovation) is driven primarily by intrinsic motivation and undermined by extrinsic motivation (i.e. monetary reward). This is not a philosophical disposition, it is an observation of experimental data. It is a result that virtually nobody anticipated, but it is what it is. I can provide a multitude of studies in regard to incentives having a detrimental affect in such circumstances if you would like.

Here's a quick summarized example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

On that basis, among many other reasons, I find the proposals of TVP reasonable. Does that answer your question?

I certainly don't agree that free market capitalism is the only economic model conducive to democracy.

exposingneil:

More Marxist spin. You don't want to abolish the free market system you just think it is obsolete?

Collectivist semantics used to mask the truth of your plans!

This is an anti-American, anti-free market organization and the BTP should not be used to further this despicable agenda!

You are against the free market. You are against competition. You want everyone to be mediocre. America will resist your tyranny!

For freedom!

m3talsmith:

I'm not a member of the Venus Project, nor a Marxist, and I'm an American (born a Fundamentalist Republican in fact). Yet I can't wait until capital dies. It is the most abusive and vicious system known to man.

Not even the monarchs caused as much death, war, or suffering, as the battle over capital has caused. It used to be a battle between the few who owned (monarchy), then a battle between the many that owned (industry), and now back to the few that owns (Banks). No one has proven that free market can ever exist that does not cause death, war, and suffering. Until you can prove that, you will not have a good percentage of people behind you.

In fact, the more that people realize that their suffering is from the hands of capitalists, and because of the act of treating money, the exchange value of commodities, as greater than the commodities themselves, and that money cares for no one but it's holder, and that only 1% of the world really holds the cash, then you will have an all out revolt to overthrow capitalism.

Capitalism is destroying itself through it's own mechanics. Capitalism is grinding people in to dust for the sake of that 1%.

So don't talk about wanting people to have a free life, a good life - a life without war, without oppression, with a good death instead of a withered one - don't tell me that I am un-american. I most certainly am anti-free market, but it is because I am anti-tyrant and pro-freedom, that I am anti-free market; not the other way around. I want the best for people; you want to be rich.

Synergy011235813:

Being "against" the free market is not against the platform of BTP.

Being "against" competition, and thus greed and exploitation, is not against the platform of BTP.

I do not want everyone to be mediocre -- another strawman. On the contrary, studies strongly suggest that competition does not better performance, and in most instances can be detrimental in the same manner in which incentives are. I don't care for philosophy. I favor science.

I don't consider it anti-American to seek more efficient alternatives to our current system in the hopes of saving lives, fostering more personal freedom, reducing stress and restoring the environment.

exposingneil:

Americans will not accept your tyranny regardless of how nicely you dress it up!

I have urged my fellow Tea Party Patriots to fight The Zeitgeist Movement at every opportunity! We will defeat you!

We will not be enslaved by Marxist scum!

Patriots, rise up and resist these socialists and their plans to enslave us! Do not fall prey to their empty promises! Fight The Zeitgeist Movement! They wish to rob us of our property and rights! They will take everything we have worked hard for! They want to take our guns and leave us at their mercy!

RESIST!

m3talsmith:

What a hate monger.

Synergy011235813:

1. TZM does not advocate Marxism.

2. TZM does not advocate enslavement in any form. That's right, if you don't want to work -- don't. Those with a passion for their field will continue regardless.

3. Nowhere has it ever been advocated by TZM to take your property or guns away.

If you disagree with the tenets of TZM and the feasibility of implementation, that's perfectly fine. Making false claims and spreading misinformation, on the other hand, is dishonest.

exposingneil:

Phase Two of your transition plan openly advocates disarming the public.

Your Marxist lies don't work!

slart:

Rethoric. Where are the arguements? :P
Why do I so rarely see any serious criticism against TVP? It's always namecalling and rethoric.

exposingneil:

Marxist scum will never win! True Americans will rise up and squash you!

You will never take our property our lives or our guns!

Jacque Fresco is Stalin in another form!

RISE UP AND RESIST!

Thomas L. Knapp:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

exposingneil:

I do not think you realize how much America doesn't want your crap!

Thomas L. Knapp:

If you had ended that comment after the first three words, it would have been believable.

exposingneil:

"Yes, I do hate the United States. It was founded on the blood of Native Americans, and built on the backs of slaves. The notion that it was ever a free country is an insult to our intellect." - VTV on the United States

Proof: http://tinyurl.com/29qrkqu

xchainlinkx:

so do you think this is a free country? do you ever believe it will be a free country with the current establishments in place, like money, religion, politics, etc?

Politics make laws and throw you in jail, money and religion separates and discriminates against other people of different incomes, jobs, beliefs, etc. as well as political beliefs. To think this country has ever been free is a fallacy. The poor cannot gain access to needed resources as the rich, people are discriminated based on their beliefs, and many people are imprisoned because of this system we are in today!

No where in history has anyone tried to solve the problems of our society by looking for the root causes of the social structure. Communism or capitalism, they're both different sides of the same damn coin. They both have people in power, they both use money, and they both undermine the rest of the population.

If you believe that there can be some other change that could possibly work other than what we advocate, please, I would like to hear from you.

If not, then stop trying to undermine the venus project without any real proof and nothing but nonsensical fear mongering and rhetoric. We're trying to promote a better future of everyone in the world, including yourself, but if all you can do is stroke your ego because you have been taught that new ideas, sustainability, and even sharing is "marxist," then you have to re-evaluate your own philosophy.

slart:

Where does he say he hate America?
Sounds like you are trying to get an emotional response.